I was wondering what the difference is between ColdFusion's built-in AJAX functionality and using a JS framework like JQuery?
It seems that ColdFusion ships with tags that can do fancy Javascript layouts and controls e.g.<cflayout> and <cfwindow>. If it can already do this then why would one want to look at JQuery?
I'm asking this question because I have been given the task of making an internal CRM application which should have a 'rich' UI. I started investigating JQuery and ExtJS which do the fancy client-side UI work. However I also noticed that CF has similar abilities. Because I am starting from ground zero I was wondering whether to spend (a lot of) time learning JQuery or ExtJS, or cut down on my development time and just use CF's built in AJAX tools.
With some good design skills, would it not be possible to create a 'rich' application with CF's built-in AJAX controls and some fancy CSS styles?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Some things to consider:
Yes, you could use CF's built-in Ajax/UI stuff to build a nice application. The downside is that doing anything outside the box of what CF has baked in is a big headache., Plus, the version of Ext JS which CF has is quite old...so getting all the goodness from the latest version (v.4.2+) is not an option, since CF doesn't have a mechanism for upgrading that library seamlessly (or freely).
As others have mentioned, you should definitely use a non-CF alternative--they are all dead-simple to integrate with CF-backend anyway, so the amount of effort required to do that vs. wrestling with tweaking the internal CF stuff is actually lesser.
Which library to use? Well, you need to seriously consider your options before jumping into one or the other. jQuery (and jQuery UI) and Bootstrap are nice for design...unlike Ext JS, however, they don't come baked in with uber-rich "data-aware" components (grids, trees, etc). They are more libraries than they are frameworks (like Ext JS). On the other hand, Ext JS, for your purposes, will not be free. Unless you plan on open-sourcing your "internal" CRM codebase, you'll likely have to commercially license the software, which is on a per-developer seat basis. I think it's well worth the cost, considering what you get, but that will have to be part of your organization's calculation if you decide to go that route.
Personally, I don't recommend using CF's Ajax functionality. I've build internal tools using ColdFusion's built in javascript and they run very slow to say the least. Your best bet is to go with JQuery and Bootstrap. This could be a bit more difficult at first, but it would open a lot of doors down the road.
Good luck! Al
Related
Disclaimer & Long Winding Question Approaching
I know topics like this have been beaten to death here so suffice to say I'm not asking about which framework is better, I don't really care about opinions on the better framework. They all do pretty amazing things.
The Question
Given that I have an existing web application, made of mostly regular HTML+CSS (jQuery where needed), which is the optimal framework to integrate a few "rich" pages into typically a regular stream of HTML.
Reason
I am trying to bring our proven application into the realm of awesome desktop like UI but I want to do it one small piece, one screen at time. But for our users, support personel and especially me taking it slow is the only option.
Also, with our branding requirements having a framework that just takes over the viewport isn't an option, it has to play nice with other HTML on the screen.
Imagine the example being a rich user manager in an otherwise plain HTML+CSS environment.
Experience Thus Far
Dojo + Dijit
Pros: The new 1.5 widgets plus the claro theme is the cure for what ails us. Dojo seems to be able to use markup to create the UI which is very appealing and has a fair amount of widgets.
Cons: Holy bloated lib Batman! Dojo seems to be enormous and I have to learn a custom build system to get it to stop requesting 4,800 javascript files. This complex empire of Javascript makes me believe I won't be able to create much that isn't already there.
ExtJS
Pros: Amazing set of widgets, does everything we could possibly want. Seems quick, every version brings new improvements.
Cons: I'm not sure how to use this without the entire display being EXT. I'm still building a web site, so I would prefer something that could integrate into what we already have. Some pointers here would be great.
YUI
Pros: Well, it's Yahoo isn't it? AWS console is downright wicked. Plenty of support and a giant community.
Cons: Well, it's Yahoo isn't it? AWS console is the only wicked thing. Complex for someone who's used to jQuery.
Help Me
I am willing to accept experience, links to ways to solve problems I've outlined, new toolkits (even though I'm pretty sure I've seen most by now) or even just advice.
Regarding ExtJS, it's pretty easy to start it in an existing div with something like this:
Ext.onReady(function() {
App = new Ext.Panel({...})
App.render('div-id')
});
The App panel can then have it's own layout manager.
This might be useful if you're familiar with jQuery, but not yet familiar with YUI 3 syntax: http://www.jsrosettastone.com/
Each of the libs you listed is excellent. When embarking on a larger scale project, the quality of a lib's documentation, community, and commitment to support become more relevant.
With Dojo, keep in mind that outside of dojo base, it only ever loads what you tell it to. But yes, without a built layer, that means it could easily end up requesting 50 JS files at startup for a large application using a bunch of widgets.
There are several pages in the reference guide documenting the build script: http://www.dojotoolkit.org/reference-guide/build/index.html
Rebecca Murphey wrote a nice blog post outlining an example app and build profile that you might find illuminative: http://blog.rebeccamurphey.com/scaffolding-a-buildable-dojo-application
If you get stuck, there's likely to be people in the Dojo IRC channel that can help.
RE ExtJS: I'm not sure what your exact situation is, but keep in mind that if you're intending to use it in commercial non-open-source software, you need to pay for licenses: http://www.sencha.com/store/js/
I'm a little curious as to why you think the size / number of requests is specifically an issue with Dojo though. I haven't used the others, but I'd expect it to be somewhat of a potential concern with any of them.
I am currently using JQuery and recently heard about RightJS. RightJS seems to be faster, lighter & more object oriented. But I was wondering if RightJS has somethings seriously missing compared to JQuery (Other than the huge plugin base).
Update:
I tried RightJS in a small web project & decided to use it on a few more projects. But I would still stick to JQuery till I am confidant about RightJS. So far RightJS seems to be doing all the things I do with JQuery (mostly ajax & selectors).
Nahar,
Nikolay, the author of RightJS is here. Couple of notes.
1) Mentioned above jQuery size is incorrect because 24k is the size of the gzipped version. Gzipped RightJS weights 14k.
2) I believe the_drow just don't know what he's talking about. RightJS has all the same as jQuery, Moo, Dojo or Prototype. More of that in RightJS you have things like classes, advanced form-features and cookies already packed into those 14k when jQuery has those things as plugins.
Then RightJS also has custom builds http://rightjs.org/build
As for dojo, I tried it on two projects before, and if you would ask me, I would say spare your time, jQuery is better.
The only problem with RightJS is that it's still an underground and we are still growing the critical mass of users, so occasionally you'll have to use your own brain instead of googling answers.
First of all jQuery currently weighs 24KB and rightJS weighs 30KB which means not as lighter as jquery.
Generally, when choosing amongst javascript frameworks, you consider these aspects:
Selectors
DOM traversal
DOM manipulation
Utility functions
Event handling
Ajax
Other than that, one of the most important factors are:
active/continuous development
community support
More Readings:
http://trends.builtwith.com/javascript
SideNote: Thanks for letting me know about RightJS :)
If you want something faster and more object oriented try the dojo toolkit.
RightJS seems nice but it's like any other minimal toolkit. I believe it's very lacking comparing to the big guns like jQuery, Dojo and Mootools.
With Dojo you can plug a datastore just about to any widget and communicate with the server side easily.
It has all of the quering capabilities jQuery has and also has a custom build process to include only what you need.
It it considered faster then jQuery in certain browsers/use cases but both are great.
There's nothing wrong with jQuery.
Both Dojo and jQuery has great community support and are continually developed.
If you are developing webapps Dojo is the right toolkit for you as it has a very comprehensive UI library.
Just check out their website.
See also this wikipedia page.
I am an avid user of the YUI framework (http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/). It has its' strengths and weaknesses both performance wise and syntax wise. I have seen a bit of JQuery and I have worked a little with prototype as well but I have stuck mainly to YUI. My question is, is it better to stick with one Javascript library per application, or leverage the abilities of multiple javascript frameworks in your application?
I think it is better to use one framework for at least two reasons:
1. Code is easy to maintain because there is no syntax mix.
2. Application loads a little faster and I think should execute little faster.
My guess is that multiple frameworks is better as long as each has its purpose. If I'm building an ASP.Net web application with AJAX functionality, there may be some built-in ASP.Net AJAX Javascript libraries being used automatically that can be combined with JQuery to handle some situations. Alternatively, one could have third-party controls like Telerik's RAD controls that also bring in more Javascript code possibly. The key is to understand what each framework is adding in terms of rolling your own.
Sure less frameworks in the same website will make your life easier, so try as you can to use one framework, and if you are going to use more than one, take care from conflicts and redundancy.
If i am in your place, i will start searching the framework i have for some plugins and updates, if didn't find will add the new framework.
One more point: don't panic from using more than one framework, the big and famous frameworks such as jquery has its implementations to solve conflicts and work side by side with other javascript libraries
Also... if you use 2 diffrent frameworks at the same time, some functions in one framework could override an function in the other framework, and make ugly conflicts.. e.g the $() could be implemented in diffrent ways, and make something crash, if other functions of the framework is using it. (and they sure do!)
I think its better to use 1 framework in your development, for consistency of API and loading speed. the problem sometime is no framework is comprehensive enough to have all of our development needs.
This is just came into mailbox, their advertisement saying it's a comprehensive framework, with plenty of widget: grid with grouping, charts, forms, tab, fields and so. I haven't play it long, but it seems very promising. check here
Aside from the framework, is jQuery worth using rather than creating your own javascript? I've always debated if the framework was better to use than to create your own calls. Are their disadvantages of using it?
Sorry for beginner question, I'm trying to feel out if it would be better to use this and create some of the ajaxish workings of my site rather than develop it from scratch.
Are there other frameworks out there that would be better to use to create an ajaxish website?
Yes, jQuery is worth it. I speak as someone who resisted using any library for a long time, then finally saw the light.
I do recommend that you build some hand-rolled Ajax interactions before you dive into using jQuery for Ajax, so that you understand exactly what is happening with Ajax. Once that's achieved, though, let the library do the dirty work.
jQuery (and most other framework) are for making difficult things simple. It keeps you from having to write cross-browser compatabile code. It keeps you from having to write recursive methods to update multiple dom-elements. It basically cuts your development time down substantially, and saves you a lot of frustration.
Stackoverflow Archive:
Which Javascript framework (jQuery vs Dojo vs … )?
Great discussion (with lots of involvement) over various javascript frameworks. It will benefit you to browse this in depth, or even at a cursory level.
When should I use a javascript framework library?
Which Javascript Framework is the simplest and most powerful?
What JavaScript library would you choose for a new project and why?
Which Javascript Ajax Framework is most powerful and very lightweight?
Which javascript framework can be used for all browsers?
If you like reinventing the wheel, write your own. For me, I prefer to spend my time focusing on solutions rather than lines and lines of javascript code. I'll use JQuery to save resources and frustration
One thing I want to add is for the past couple of months, I was trying to fill a web developer position for my team, and it proved to be a difficult task.
Lots of folks knew how to use a JS framework (JQuery, ExtJS, YUI...), but once outside of the framework, they found themselves in an unfamiliar ground. I had a self-claimed senior JS developer with over 10 years of experience couldn't tell me how to use function.call() or function.apply() or how to implement simple inheritance in JavaScript.
Framework is great and definitely useful, but you will also want to make sure to know how to implement the basic OO concept and DOM manipulation without the framework.
BTW, we use ExtJS and if you are starting to pick a JS framework, you may want to look around to see which one suits you the most.
jQuery is a big project with many users. By that nature, it will be better tested than anything you write by yourself.
It is a great framework for most uses I've come to need.
Is there anything in particular you are trying to do?
jQuery helps you avoid worrying too much about cross-browser JavaScript issues, and helps you get things done quickly. As far as I'm concerned, the key reason for using it vs your own hand-rolled JavaScript probably is the "don't re-invent the wheel" cliché.
Apart from added productivity, JQuery's main plus is that it takes all (most) of the pain out of cross-browser testing.
There is no reason you cannot write your own code and splash in JQuery where needed. JQuery is incredibly lightweight for what it provides and you will quickly find that you can do most takes easier in JQuery (especially once you start using the plugins for it) than by hand. I am a big believer in not reinventing the wheel. The JQuery code is tested by tons of people and there are so many plugins to chose from I could almost guarantee that what I want to do has already been done before.
If you are starting with a clean site, now is the perfect time to take JQuery for a spin though, because if you do get hooked on it your code will be more consistent if you solve similar tasks using the same technique. Go give it a try :)
I would highly recommend using jQuery (or any comparable framework) over straight JavaScript. It just makes common programming tasks easier, most notably cross-browser development.
jquery makes js related work easier and more important standardised/compliant.
If you need re-assurance as to its use:
MS & Nokia are bundling it in their dev platforms.
Its compatible with many of the newest web technologies.
It has a large developer community supporting it.
There are many plug-ins available to aid RAD.
and more...
Give it a go!!
Definutly! Jquery wil save you a lot of time struggling over code and makes your code easier to read to non-experts.
I am going to start a new application which mainly consist NavigationPane, Grid, Toolbar. Layout should look like this demo page http://www.gwt-ext.com/demo/
I am quite confused which one to use in terms of writing less code, more performant, etc..
Could someone tell the pros and cons of all these technologies.
All the while I coded in javascript, so that way ExtJs seems to be the easy one for me to code. But I am curios to try GWT Ext, Is it true that it could do a lot just by writing few lines of java code.
For eg: To achieve the layout ( given in above gwt ext demo url), which one should I opt ExtJs or GWT Ext.
I read SmartGWT is relatively slower than GwtEXT. Does it have any advantage over GWT EXT. I am also looking for hibernate based data modules ( as my application is going to have many database calls). Anyone of SmartGWT or GWTExt has support for such modules. I came to know that smartgwt doesn't offer all of smartclient enterprise version functionalities, that we are allowed only a few of smartclient features. Will it be an issue?
Your response is highly appreciated.
The GWT-Ext main page now says
"GWT-Ext is no longer under active development and has been superseded by Smart GWT. Assistance will be provided to existing users of GWT-Ext looking to migrate to Smart GWT."
so why would anyone use it?
To write the least code, use SmartGWT Pro. It provides a wizard that allows you to just pick from a list of Hibernate entities you've created, and instantly you have the ability to perform all CRUD operations on that entity, no code required. Then you can add business logic.
The wizard:
http://www.smartclient.com/smartgwtee/showcase/#tools_hibernate_wizard
The link about is just screenshots, but there are several Hibernate samples in the showcase. See especially the Master-Detail Batch Load and Save sample.
As far as performance, real-world performance of most enterprise apps is dictated by how often the application has to contact the server. In this area SmartGWT has a large lead because of features like Adaptive Filtering (see the Featured area in the SmartGWT showcase).
Almost all reports we receive of SmartGWT being "slow" are due to having Firebug enabled. Disable Firebug and performance is fine, so normal end users will never perceive slowness.
About 6 months ago, we studied whether we would use ExtJS or GWT-Ext for an internal application. We wanted the back-end to be J2EE standard frameworks (struts, spring, hibernate for persistence, etc.). We ended up choosing ExtJS because it seemed to us that GWT was not stable enough (too many changes in the API that is still recent), and Ext-GWT was always lagging behind in development.
application which mainly consist NavigationPane, Grid, Toolbar.
Well, this tells us a lot about your app, doesn't it :)
I think it comes down to how good you are at either Java or JavaScript. They are quite a different languages you know :) But if you are well-versed at both but only used Ext JS, then picking up Ext GWT (or GWT Ext, if you meant that), shouldn't be such a great deal. And if that application you are planning is going to be as simple and small as your description of it, then it's probably a perfect opportunity to try out something new.
I use GWT-Ext and it is quite good especially if you don't mind tweaking things with JSNI to customize the already existing Ext widgets it is incredibly powerful. Unfortunately development is stagnant, so my future projects will probably be either in SmartGWT or Ext-GWT. SmartGWT is written by Sanjiv Jivan (same guy who wrote GWT-Ext) and it has most of the widgets we need. I must say most of the skins are quite dated except the Enterprise skin which looks good, but you can always roll your own skin.